[MachineShop] Prioritization

Mon Feb 24 12:25:36 PST 2025

The South Bend lathe. I will leave the belt configuration as is. Currently
it has a single phase VFD on it. At the previous building I complained to
Bill that the wiring was causing tripping issues, so he installed solid
conduit. Right now, it does not have any wires. Bill is trying to get the
CNC wood machine working so he is unavailable to work on it. I will look
and see if I can wire it without conduit. I'll try to think of something.

The Mill, Bridgeport and Bandsaw are currently functional, just buried
under junk. The hardness tester needs its tooling organized. I need to
figure out an optimal placement for the grinder.

Training for the hardness tester would be useful. I found it difficult to
remember the steps myself, even after going through the documentation for
it. I'm wondering if it might be useful to record it and then go back and
break the steps down.

The EDM discussion was about two different EDM machines. One was about a
shop machine that was being discarded, and another discussion was about an
EDM project that can be installed on a 3D printer. The shop EDM machine was
a no go for a number of reasons: it was non-functional, it would need a
large investment, it would take up a lot of space, it was the wrong
voltage, it had little resale value, and it would be very expensive to
move. The second option was more viable, it was a project called
“Powercore.” Another member bought one of the components themselves. This
involves putting EDM like components on to a 3D printer. My main concern
was that research into safety procedures should done, since little is known
about the hazards of this process by most people (including me). Being the
size of a 3D printer, space didn't seem like an issue. I doubt such a
hypothetical machine would have the tolerances needed since 3D printers are
open-loop (no absolute position encoders). But it could be useful.

I partly think that separate training for the smaller lathes, if the user
has had training on the SouthBend, isn't needed. Basic documentation,
manual, or etc on the operation of those machines would save a lot of time.
But I also agree that training of any kind would make their use safer. It’s
a valid point. In which case, all the machines in the shop should get
training.

As for the yellow combination lathe/mill, this is going to be a long
explanation.

The Machine Shop has a two-person rule and many people found it
problematic. It has been the main complaint about the machine shop. Me and
Bill were talked about how to make the machine shop more accessible to
users while also being safe. I went online and tried to feel out the safety
rules to see how we were doing with our procedures to see if the two-person
rule was excessive. But the general advice I received was towards more
safety. There were recommendations that the woodshop should adapt a
two-person rule with the table saw, and that the practice should not be
limited to the machine shop.

With that, my alternative idea was to pursue a sweet spot of “hobby
machines” which were big enough to use but not big enough to cause serious
injury (as in requiring hospitalization) where the second person rule for
the use of that machine would be dropped. This is the case with the drill
press for example. One makerspace I looked at online had had a hazard class
rating system on their machines. They had their machines rated one through
four, with the last one only being usable by staff. That’s not to say that
dropping the two-person rule on smaller machines will make the machines
safe, since someone determined enough can send themselves to the hospital
from using a pencil wrong, but rather ultimately of lower risk. This would
be machines that have low stored momentum. I'm not sure where to draw line,
but I think the idea of having smaller middle ground machines is worth
trying. Provided there is space.

This is where the combination lathe/mill machine comes in. Some time ago we
had a 3-in-1 Smithy donated to us from the AFB. It was never maintained and
needed work just to turn on. Additionally, it took as much floor space as
our “real” machines while not having any tooling. The machine Bill brought
in is similar, except that 1) it was a working machine when it was removed
2) it includes tooling 3) it has a manageable footprint 4) It has a DRO. On
top of that, it is a common popular conversion to CNC. The machine is also
120V and would have good resale value if we decided to get rid of it.

Having said that, I’m kicking myself for not getting this
https://www.bentleysauction.com/auctions/11007/lot/354129-plas-labs-chamber-w-prazi-sd-300-lathe
I was going to bid on it but by the time I got home I was too tired and
forgot about it. Lathes have issues with stored momentum, and that machine
seemed like it was of a good size without being too big. Granted the amount
of money I could have put down would have been limited. The sherline and
unimat are nice and small, but I don't recall if we have all the tooling
for them.

The other way to make the machine shop viable, would be if quelab got a
security guard of some kind and/or we have designated machine shop hours.
In theory that’s doable, since we have three lathes and three mills.

Another option I tried was to get a co-steward to run the shop and train
people. Over the years I never managed to find the right candidate.
Generally everyone filtered out in to two categories: competent but
unavailable, not competent and available. Recently one person said that
they are interested, and I plan on putting them through training once I get
the South Bend going.

The previous shop steward, Eric, made it all work by keeping regular office
hours every week but that’s just impossible for me with my family
obligations (among other problems I'm not going to list here).

But there are also some people that think that the two-person rule should
apply to the shop no matter what machine is being used, out of principle.
This is something that would be done under say “shop Thursdays” when you
have a large enough user base to just show up at once. I'm not in that
mindset though. The user base isn't there. Right now having a wall
separating the woodshop and the machine shop means that the second person
would have to be in the machine shop to qualify, and that’s going to be
hard to manage. If people simply ignore it, then we'll have a culture of
ignoring safety and an injury lawsuit on our hands.

So that’s why that yellow lathe/mill is there.

On Sun, Feb 23, 2025, 6:11 AM S Ford <sford.soar at gmail.com> wrote:

> I wish I could come in and help Denis. I’m on travel again next 70 days or
> so; back home for a couple of weeks then out again; back home then gone mid
> June to 8 July….. I have plans to use the Southbend early May or early July
> if it is available
>
> As for priorities that I value:
> - Southbend Lathe; the mill that we test on; the Bridgeport; one of the
> other lathes; bandsaw; hardness tester; pedestal/bench grinder to grind
> cutting tools.
>
> I don’t see the ShopSmith as a useful tool. It doesn’t have the precision
> that I look for.
>
> I would like to get one of the Unimat lathes going: a jewelers size lathe
> can be quite useful on tiny parts; I have experience setting one up and
> maintaining it. And am happy to instruct others in use
>
> Similarly: I’m happy to have a gathering where machine shop folks can
> learn about the hardness tester and how to use it. The utility of it is
> determining the condition of a steel or alloy before one attempts to
> machine it on the other equipment
>
> I can applaud Tim wanting to refurb the EDM and CNC….. and I thought that
> he wanted to recondition and resell those?  but I don’t honestly see much
> utility in having them in the shop unless a user or users are going to run
> numerous parts to support an incubating biz.
>
> As for safety procedures:
> - I thought that the basic procedures for the machines that have been
> developed are good; and that key was training on the machines that one
> would use. I don’t believe in one policy fits all machines and that
> becoming familiar with the basics then getting an introduction to a machine
> and it’s characteristics are key
> - with regard to limiting torque or power on a machine in the name of
> safety……. I would like to avoid that and instead emphasize respect for the
> power of the machine and, when used improperly, for the ability of a
> machine to cause serious injury. To me the risks are no different than
> those that exist in the wood or welding shop areas.
>
> I should be in town all of Fall and early winter. Can come help you, etc
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Feb 22, 2025, at 23:50, Denis Muradov via Machineshop <
> machineshop at quelab.net> wrote:
> >
> > 
> > Just brainstorming here.
> >
> > What do you consider a priority right now? Do you consider bringing the
> southbend lathe online, making room or organization a priority? I ask
> because currently organization is much more difficult (back issues) for me
> than repairing things. But if that is what people want, I'll find a way.
> >
> > Bill is stuck working on the wood machine CNC so things involving wiring
> is held up.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Machineshop mailing list
> > Machineshop at quelab.net
> > http://pepper.quelab.net/mailman/listinfo/machineshop
>
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